Thursday, March 15, 2007
Mapuche girl
Maybe this is somewhat against the spirit of Stills but so be it.
This girl, if aged around 7 or 8, is now 15 or 16. I have been scanning photos from our time in Chile for a talk to be given locally. This one (Olympus OM1, unknown lens and Fuji 400) I scanned around the time Colin wrote his article on portraiture (see his site > new > 7 March) and it left me thinking. The Mapuche are one of the original peoples of Chile and held out against the Spanish and the Chilean Government until 1870 (the last to do so). The predominantly Euro-ethnic government has not treated them kindly in the intervening years and the Mapuche exist in an uneasy relationship with Santiago. During our time there was increased tension as a result of decisions by private electricity companies to build dams that would flood Mapuche land. A series of events started, including a march from some 600Kms to the South, to the capital. I went to a couple of rallies and took this picture in 1999 with a 200mm lens. For most of the time I was using a wider angle lens but as the Mapuche do not like to have their photos taken (unless to press their political case more strongly, in other words abiding by their conditions) I fell back on the telephoto from time to time. As an extra, you might be interested in the fact that they are very warlike, particularly the women: in one meeting in a school room in the South a Government minister was hit by two women and had to retreat!
What interested me in Colin's article was the thread about what constitutes a portrait and whether it was possible to get beneath the veneer to capture 'the soul'. My definition of a portrait is a picture that endeavours to get beneath the surface veneer and show something of the relationship between what a person looks like and any facet of their character. In other words, I don't believe that it would ever be possible to know what Kate Moss looks like from the fashion photos. One then goes through differing layers of success in getting beyond the 'likeness'. Colin believes (feels?!) that one needs to see something of the context/activity surrounding that person before one is any position to get to know who that person is. I would go along with that to quite a large extent as context is always something I look for. But I am not so much in favour of the fashionable picture of the moment that stands, for example, the butcher in bloodied apron clutching his cleaver and staring intently at the camera; it tends to the fashion end of the spectrum.
Every now and then a straight head shot can succeed and I have that feeling with this one: there is some indication of thought process and a use of the eyes to both veil and enquire that goes beyond likeness. The morality of using a telephoto for this purpose is always debatable; suffice it to say that I take far more with a shorter focal length lens these days but never discount the use of the telephoto.
Now, shoot it down!
Permalink / posted by and copyright of John Ellis : 11:51 AM
Comments:
I'll bite. What is the "spirit of Stills" that this goes against? Perhaps I haven't been here long enough, but I was of the opinion that anything goes and different genres, etc. were encouraged.
I like portraits, (even some of the so-called fashion type -- I often visit the Sartorialist blog). This one definitely captures a feeling that goes deep, with a challenging look and proud, I'll say adult, demeanor not often seen in pictures of children so young. I'm curious about what looks like a pierced ear that contains no earring. I would like to see more of the beaded necklace and braids.
I wish I could be there for your presentation -- appreciate the extensive and interesting introduction to this image, and now I'm off to read Colin's portraiture article!
Christina - what I mean is that generally one is posting reasonably contemporary photos rather than from eight years ago.
Maybe this is somewhat against the spirit of Stills but so be it.
Not as far as I can see. If you think we are at cross purposes about something, John, then do email me.
Colin - I think our comments crossed. No cross purposes, just a feeling that Stills is more about reasonably contemprary work. Looking back is fun if done in moderation!
Now, on to the picture. This may require a couple of goes :-)
First thoughts are that:
a) this is half portrait half candid. That means that the subject is much less of a participant than say, in the Sternfeld series that somebody linked in the portraiture post on my blog.
b) the subject is a child. There seems to be period in childhood when a person is a largely formed and distinct human being but isn't yet used to hiding behind a mask all the time. I've found it much easier to photograph children than adults because of this.
c) on a different track. You've got to love those Fuji colours!
John,
yes we crossed on the wires.
I quote para one (of one) from the 'about' tab:
Stills is a collaborative photoblog with an emphasis on learning and sharing.
I think that you've raised a number of things with your post that might easily be classed as 'learning and sharing'.
Colin - the point about how children interact with people (and the camera) is a valid one but probably not definitive: not all adults manage to hide their true self all of the time!
"this is half portrait half candid" - I'm not sure that there isn't a natural overlap, certainly the latter shouldn't exclude the possibility of the former.
John,
portrait/candid - I agree that there is overlap. It may even be a single range. I was just pointing out that this image was a bit of both.
Talk of 'true selves', or at least trying to define what that might mean, leads, I suspect, to madness. My model is much more onion like, I think. Various levels of who we are, who we think we are, who we would like everybody else to think we are, and who we would like to be (and so on and so on).
There is a wariness evident in this face. Is she a naturally wary person? Or is she feeling out of place away from home? Maybe a normal easy-go-lucky child a bit scared of foreigners with cameras? Is she about to spit at you? Or is she weighing up her chances for a handful of coins? Maybe she has just seen her rival arrive in fancy new clothes. Or a boyfriend talking to somebody she wished he wouldn't.
I don't think any of these are fanciful readings (of the text and photo combined).
Talking of text and photo combined, you've provided the context for the photo in the words. To get that context across in pictures would take a very big set (and still require some words).
Its a lovely photo by the way. Those eyes are very nearly Afghan girl (McCurry). As it is a scan, is there a smidgen more headroom on the neg?
Colin - your onion analogy is a good one (even if the implication is that there is no centre!) and it can be difficult to know which layer one is playing with.
The Mapuche wouldn't ask for coins - unless collecting at a rally so that rules out one hypothesis! There may be some wariness but overall she would seem to be quite in thrall to the event: she might be from Santiago and thus gripped by the glamour of her 'people' in their local costumes or from the South and excited to be in the capital. But I also see some thinking about her cultural identity as she becomes more aware.
I can't find the negative but I suspect that this is the size (the print). It was a fixed 200mm so it was either take it or lose it. It doesn't bother me really.
Christina - if I didn't disapprove of air travel I'd say pop over to Cardiff for the talk!
in the Sternfeld series that somebody linked in the portraiture post on my blog. I've looked for this on your blog Colin but cannot find it.
I am not sure of the subtleties mentioned about one type of portrait vs another. The message I get from this is one of curiosity with a smidgen of distain. Love it.
This is superb.
Why does every portrait need a catch-light? Without reading background or location I sense an immediate disengagement between subject and photographer. The head is so slightly raised as to add a sense of strength in such a young subject. The pursed lips add some suspense as to what will be said.
From a cold initial impression I can read so much into those eyes - and such a different 'eye' shot versus the Afghan one. As I mention before I see such strength in her eyes that I never felt in the Afghan shot. Best I don't get started on the nose.
Great work John.
Additionally: "I don't believe that it would ever be possible to know what Kate Moss looks like from the fashion photos" Testino has recently published a book of 'candids'. I think your statement holds much truth based upon the small selection of pictures I've seen of it (March's Vanity Fair if you're interested in seeing for yourself). Having only ever worked with a model once I have a lot of admiration for their ability to perform on demand (much like actors). But the good models will always be putting on this act and you can never peel away at the onion. As to their monetary worth I'll leave that for others to decide upon. I would like to do more portraiture and is something I'll be working on during the warmer months. The Satorialist, as Christina mentioned, has been a site I have been visiting quite regularly for a year or so. It's an interesting concept but one that Tokyo has already got more than enough websites catering for. It's given me some ideas as has coming across some old Ihei Kimura portraits recently.
Thanks Akikana..
I'm not sure I can buy Vanity Fair out here! I have had a look at some Kimura pictures on the net and like what I see; a good inspiration. The Sartorialist is interesting but I can't empathise with the life-style depicted!
If you get this twice then the system will have thrown up a comment from three hours ago that has disappeared.
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I like portraits, (even some of the so-called fashion type -- I often visit the Sartorialist blog). This one definitely captures a feeling that goes deep, with a challenging look and proud, I'll say adult, demeanor not often seen in pictures of children so young. I'm curious about what looks like a pierced ear that contains no earring. I would like to see more of the beaded necklace and braids.
I wish I could be there for your presentation -- appreciate the extensive and interesting introduction to this image, and now I'm off to read Colin's portraiture article!
Not as far as I can see. If you think we are at cross purposes about something, John, then do email me.
First thoughts are that:
a) this is half portrait half candid. That means that the subject is much less of a participant than say, in the Sternfeld series that somebody linked in the portraiture post on my blog.
b) the subject is a child. There seems to be period in childhood when a person is a largely formed and distinct human being but isn't yet used to hiding behind a mask all the time. I've found it much easier to photograph children than adults because of this.
c) on a different track. You've got to love those Fuji colours!
yes we crossed on the wires.
I quote para one (of one) from the 'about' tab:
Stills is a collaborative photoblog with an emphasis on learning and sharing.
I think that you've raised a number of things with your post that might easily be classed as 'learning and sharing'.
"this is half portrait half candid" - I'm not sure that there isn't a natural overlap, certainly the latter shouldn't exclude the possibility of the former.
portrait/candid - I agree that there is overlap. It may even be a single range. I was just pointing out that this image was a bit of both.
Talk of 'true selves', or at least trying to define what that might mean, leads, I suspect, to madness. My model is much more onion like, I think. Various levels of who we are, who we think we are, who we would like everybody else to think we are, and who we would like to be (and so on and so on).
There is a wariness evident in this face. Is she a naturally wary person? Or is she feeling out of place away from home? Maybe a normal easy-go-lucky child a bit scared of foreigners with cameras? Is she about to spit at you? Or is she weighing up her chances for a handful of coins? Maybe she has just seen her rival arrive in fancy new clothes. Or a boyfriend talking to somebody she wished he wouldn't.
I don't think any of these are fanciful readings (of the text and photo combined).
Talking of text and photo combined, you've provided the context for the photo in the words. To get that context across in pictures would take a very big set (and still require some words).
Its a lovely photo by the way. Those eyes are very nearly Afghan girl (McCurry). As it is a scan, is there a smidgen more headroom on the neg?
The Mapuche wouldn't ask for coins - unless collecting at a rally so that rules out one hypothesis! There may be some wariness but overall she would seem to be quite in thrall to the event: she might be from Santiago and thus gripped by the glamour of her 'people' in their local costumes or from the South and excited to be in the capital. But I also see some thinking about her cultural identity as she becomes more aware.
I can't find the negative but I suspect that this is the size (the print). It was a fixed 200mm so it was either take it or lose it. It doesn't bother me really.
Christina - if I didn't disapprove of air travel I'd say pop over to Cardiff for the talk!
I am not sure of the subtleties mentioned about one type of portrait vs another. The message I get from this is one of curiosity with a smidgen of distain. Love it.
Why does every portrait need a catch-light? Without reading background or location I sense an immediate disengagement between subject and photographer. The head is so slightly raised as to add a sense of strength in such a young subject. The pursed lips add some suspense as to what will be said.
From a cold initial impression I can read so much into those eyes - and such a different 'eye' shot versus the Afghan one. As I mention before I see such strength in her eyes that I never felt in the Afghan shot. Best I don't get started on the nose.
Great work John.
Additionally: "I don't believe that it would ever be possible to know what Kate Moss looks like from the fashion photos" Testino has recently published a book of 'candids'. I think your statement holds much truth based upon the small selection of pictures I've seen of it (March's Vanity Fair if you're interested in seeing for yourself). Having only ever worked with a model once I have a lot of admiration for their ability to perform on demand (much like actors). But the good models will always be putting on this act and you can never peel away at the onion. As to their monetary worth I'll leave that for others to decide upon. I would like to do more portraiture and is something I'll be working on during the warmer months. The Satorialist, as Christina mentioned, has been a site I have been visiting quite regularly for a year or so. It's an interesting concept but one that Tokyo has already got more than enough websites catering for. It's given me some ideas as has coming across some old Ihei Kimura portraits recently.
I'm not sure I can buy Vanity Fair out here! I have had a look at some Kimura pictures on the net and like what I see; a good inspiration. The Sartorialist is interesting but I can't empathise with the life-style depicted!
If you get this twice then the system will have thrown up a comment from three hours ago that has disappeared.